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Author Topic: Carrmoto Tech Tip #1  (Read 14613 times)
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carrmoto
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« on: September 30, 2008, 09:08:49 AM »

Hi guys and gals!  I talked to Bryan about coming on once every couple weeks or so and putting a tech tip on the Forum.  I was going to do it Sunday but then I got distracted with topping Kevin's Asteroids record.  I think after the 100th try I realized that it wasn't happening.  Grin  I'm liking the arcade though, good stress release.

BRAKE FLUID 101:

You will find the correct brake fluid for your Motorcycle on the reservoir cap and the service/owner's manual.   Ducatis come with Dot 4 but some of the older coffin style brake and clutch pumps use the 3/5 designation on the reservoir cap which I have been told by the folks at Brembo means Dot 4. Undecided  DOT3/5 = DOT 4 

One should not use Dot 5 because it is a silicone based brake fluid.  Using the DOT 5 in our Ducatis can and will lead to a dangerous situation as the seals inside the brake master and/or the calipers will most likely fail and lead to a loss of brakes.  This is just a inconvenience if you are lucky and notice it before you ride the bike as you then call Travis and order new brake components.  But what if you are out on the road acting like the hooligan you should and then your brakes fail?  This is not good.  Brake failure ranks right up there with the throttle sticking wide open, scary stuff!!



DOT 5.1
There is one exception to the rule in that for performance braking applications such as racing and trackdays one can use a 5.1 Brake Fluid to replace the Dot 4.  When using the Dot 5.1 in place of the Dot 4 it is recommended that brake components are replaced more often than when using the Dot 4.  This is understandable as brake components on a race/trackday bike will need replacement more often than a streetbike anyway. 

So in short:

Use a high quality DOT 4 brake fluid for your streetbike, trackbike, or racebike.
If you want higher performance for your trackbike you may use the 5.1 in place of the DOT 4.  This replacement of the DOT 5.1 for the DOT 4 is OK as long one understands that Brembo states that seals will were out more prematurely with the DOT 5.1 than with the DOT 4.  But as I stated before, Trackday and Race applications will wear the seals out faster anywy due to the much higher heat and pressure that the system sees on the track.  This wear will be gradual and should not be confused with the failure that will happen if one uses the wrong fluid.

       DO NOT MISTAKE DOT 5 for DOT 5.1!!

 
Some of this may be confusing so if you have any questions just let me know here or call the shop.  Travis and I are here to help and we just completed the Brembo training seminar here in Indy last week. 317 337 1098

Factiod from our training:  Rossi's Brembo carbon rotors reach near 1000deg F at the heavier braking tracks.




« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 05:57:14 AM by carrmoto » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2008, 11:41:31 AM »

Pah... my rotors get to at least 1200f.... Rossi's a poser

Thanks for the tip, Matt
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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2008, 11:44:15 AM »

good stuff... especially the factoid
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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2008, 12:21:11 PM »

Good to know.
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2008, 12:56:00 PM »

Thanks Matt!  Am I correct in assuming that the same fluid is what should be used for the clutch hydraulic system?
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carrmoto
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« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2008, 03:58:28 PM »

Yes, same goes for the clutch fluid.

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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2008, 04:13:34 PM »

DOT 5.1 is a silicone based fluid if I read it right. That's why it isn't compatible with 4 & 5.1

I've had good luck with wilwood DOT 4 racing fluid, it's good for like 600 deg.
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« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2008, 04:38:26 PM »

DOT 5.1 is a silicone based fluid if I read it right. That's why it isn't compatible with 4 & 5.1

I've had good luck with wilwood DOT 4 racing fluid, it's good for like 600 deg.

Dot 5 is silicone.  It should never be used in any high performance brake system for two main reasons:  1) it's more compressible than the glycol mixtures of 3, 4, and 5.1.  and    2) Since it's not hygroscopic (google is your friend), the water will find the lowest point in the brake system.  Usually that's the caliper.  Under heavy braking, water in your caliper will boil and you will lose all brakes.  Stick with 3, 4, or 5.1.

As far as I've ever seen 3, 4, and 5.1 are compatible with each other.  I'd have to see an authoritative citation to convince me otherwise.
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« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2008, 07:06:05 PM »

Ever see the brakes on a LeMans car when the race progresses after the sun has set?  Those puppies are glowing.  I didn't notice it as much on the F1 race at Singapore last weekend (first ever under the lights), but sure the same thing is going on.
I think it is Assan where MotoGP runs after dark.  I'll have to notice what happens to the brakes next time.
Thanks Matt for posting the tip.  I'm looking forward to more of this.
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« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2008, 08:54:16 PM »

This should turn out to be an excellent thread.
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« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2008, 04:21:41 AM »

This should turn out to be an excellent thread.
we almost need a "ask Matt a tech question Forum"
where he can just pop in once in a while and answer them
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carrmoto
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2008, 05:55:36 AM »

Dot 5 is silicone.  It should never be used in any high performance brake system for two main reasons:  1) it's more compressible than the glycol mixtures of 3, 4, and 5.1.  and    2) Since it's not hygroscopic (google is your friend), the water will find the lowest point in the brake system.  Usually that's the caliper.  Under heavy braking, water in your caliper will boil and you will lose all brakes.  Stick with 3, 4, or 5.1.

As far as I've ever seen 3, 4, and 5.1 are compatible with each other.  I'd have to see an authoritative citation to convince me otherwise.

Yes, I should have taken more time to point out that DOT 3 is compatitable(won't harm the seals) but I would never use it at the shop because it will drop the boiling point underneath what I consider acceptable.  This is not compatible with our level of service  As a person who could easily boil DOT 3 brake fluid on a Brown County run I think I give myself the power of "authoritative citation".    But if you ride like a an old lady and realize our shop does not suggest nor use it, then go ahead and use DOT 3. 



« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 06:00:24 AM by carrmoto » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2008, 06:25:19 AM »

Yes, I should have taken more time to point out that DOT 3 is compatitable(won't harm the seals) but I would never use it at the shop because it will drop the boiling point underneath what I consider acceptable.  This is not compatible with our level of service  As a person who could easily boil DOT 3 brake fluid on a Brown County run I think I give myself the power of "authoritative citation".    But if you ride like a an old lady and realize our shop does not suggest nor use it, then go ahead and use DOT 3. 

Sorry, but the rules of logic don't allow you to be your own authority; especially when your post is so sloppy from a technical viewpoint.
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2008, 06:54:19 AM »

Hedge, I think you forgot the  Wink

"Logic is only the beginning of knowlegde"... so says Mr. Spock, so there Tongue Tongue Tongue


 
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2008, 06:56:48 AM »

Thanks for the late-morning spanking.  I probably need it.  Smiley
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« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2008, 07:35:24 AM »

Sorry, but the rules of logic don't allow you to be your own authority; especially when your post is so sloppy from a technical viewpoint.

I like you, you're funny. Smiley
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« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2008, 07:40:38 AM »

Yikes!!! Good morning "sunshine"
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